The following is an excerpt from a comment board on the Christian Conservative blog. I liked the subject, and felt the Bible needed to be used in the argument. The Christian Conservative is right on target, but since he allows comments, he gets a bunch of diffrent perspectives. Many of them are NOT Biblical (like "jake" below):
God NO longer judge[s], and NEVER will judge humans for their sins ever again. Or was Isaiah on Prozac when he said God will remember their sins no more? Jesus fulfilled all the Law, all the Prophets, and all the Psalms (Luk 24.44). If he did not, then he lied, and we would still be living under the law.
...(edited for relevance)...
God dealt with sin two thousand years ago, and where there is NO law, there is no more transgression of the law. I know this is not the good news of the Gospel they talk about on TBN, but thank God for that.
jake
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God NO longer judge, and NEVER will judge humans for their sins ever again.
In that case, there's an awful lot of verbiage wasted in the New Testament about judgment day . . .
Scott McClare | Email | Homepage | 12.15.04 - 10:50 am | #
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"God NO longer judge, and NEVER will judge humans for their sins ever again. Or was Isaiah on Prozac when he said God will remember their sins no more? Jesus fulfilled all the Law, all the Prophets, and all the Psalms (Luk 24.44). If he did not, then he lied, and we would still be living under the law."
You forget the Scriptures in the New Testament that state many who will have no part in God's kingdom and others that say something like:
"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..." (Hebrews 9.27)
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5.10)
"But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men." (2 Peter 3.7)
"Because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead." (Acts 17.31)
and these (to cite a few): Matt 7:22; 11:22, 24; 12:36; 1 Thess 5:4; Heb 10:25; 2 Peter 2:9; 1 John 4:17.
Closing: Not all men are saved because Jesus came and delt with sin. Only those that "receive Him" are given the "right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name..." (John 1.12) And we must go through the Son to get to the Father (and heaven): "Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14.6)
Pete
PS- Jesus fulfilled the Law enabling Him to be the perfect Sacrifice for those who would receive. He had to do what we could (or would) not. There is no contradiction here. In a total context it makes perfect sense.
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UPDATE:
Further posts...
Michael
“In that case, there's an awful lot of verbiage wasted in the New Testament about judgment day . . .”
Not really, but the New Testament is NOT the Scriptures. It’s a debate about the Scriptures, which Jesus defined as the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms, which he came to fulfill, and had to fulfill by his death. There is not a single Law, Prophet or Psalm that was NOT fulfilled at the Cross or Jesus’ words that “it is finished” was not true. Whenever the NT writers refer to the Scriptures, they are referring to a passage in one of these three areas, and none of them called their writings the Scriptures. I think I would rather believe Jesus about what the Scriptures are, and I believe that he said it was fulfilled as he said he would come to do.
Find me ONE Scripture (as defined by Jesus) where any prophet foretold a time when God would judge the sin of the world, and then judge it again. It’s ALL fulfilled two thousand years ago by Jesus’ own testimony. None of them prophesied this, but I know Peter spoke of such a Gospel, but Paul never uttered any such a teaching.
In fact, you can read Paul, James and Peter, who uses the exact same symbols and come up with contrary Gospels. That’s what these guys had “bitter disputes” about. The law and grace and mixing the two. I believe the Scriptures, not Peter’s private interpretation of it. By his own admission, when Paul speaks these things “it is hard to understand”. Now wonder Christianity is such a confused mess, because people are trying to reconcile to opposite Gospels that contradicts each other.
Fact is, the prophets said God would judge the world once in Christ, and remember their sins no more. Believing anything less is a diminishing of the finished work of the Cross, and making Jesus a lair that “it is FINISHED.”
jake
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So you accept the New Testament where it speaks of Christ being the Messiah who would conquer sin, but you deny any other part that you don't like. Good job. (Not)
If you deny the New Testament as Scripture, you leave no reason to follow Jesus.
And since you like to quote this out of context jake, here is what Peter said in the Scripture: "So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position." (2 Peter 3.14-17) (NIV)
Peter did not say Paul was teaching diffrently, he said that Paul was teaching deeply and "ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction." (as cited above)
Notice, Peter makes reference to Paul's writing as equal to Scripture. For a comparison: NASB- "which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." KJV- "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." ASV- "which the ignorant and unstedfast wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." Holman Christian Standard bible (HCSB)- "The untaught and unstable twist them to their own destruction, as they also do with the rest of the Scriptures."
Context, context, context. By your own favorite (it would seem) Scripture: Peter approves of Paul's message and equates in with Scripture.
Pete
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